small outburst - opencv

sdetweil

@monark on your last point, oh if it were that easy

I use the qrcode module in a couple of mine and it’s used in others
Sadly the api has changed. Theirs won’t run on my version and mine won’t run on their version.

And the MagicMirror ui is a browser which never considered this problem, first one loaded wins.

I had to change my design to move the dependency someplace else. But we still need different versions.

And as things age they may or may not continue to work.

monark

I just want to add one thing: I seem to remember that MagicMirror was created for Raspberry, not for other systems such as laptops and operating systems other than Raspberry. Nothing against those who create a mirror for their laptop and share it with others who want to do the same, but it seems to me that the mirror’s design has strayed from its original purpose by not specifically using Raspberry as its main hardware.

I would be inclined to think, “Well, the developers weren’t able to create the module with that hardware,” or “too many complications,” but that would be taking a shortcut for those who know and don’t want to “apply themselves” and would leave those who don’t know behind, without helping them to progress.

To be clear, I’m not saying anything against those involved in the topic, I’m talking in general terms and I hope no one takes offense at what I’m writing. It’s the frustration of someone who desperately wants to create their own mirror, has a clear idea of what they want, but has been hampered by modules and dependencies for years.

monark

@sdetweil said in small outburst - opencv:

Sadly the api has changed.

But this (if I understand correctly, please correct me) only applies to modules that require APIs.
A change of API is not a problem for me (if I understand correctly). For example, if I remember correctly, the open-weatherforecast module (or similar) went from API 1.0 to 2.5 to 3.5 via openweathermap.

If so, I am talking about modules where there is no API but only dependency requests. See that damn OPENCV and facial recognition.

sdetweil

@monark the module uses opencv apis. In python and was modified to work w a specific version of opencv.
see the recognition.py, which the module launches in the background

  self.pyshell = new PythonShell('modules/' + this.name + '/tools/recognition.py', options);

They also removed working with usb cameras, now only pi camera (I think only latest). So it no longer works for me

sdetweil

@monark MagicMirror was NOT developed ONLY for pi.
But ALSO For pi.

PI is one place making a mirror would be ‘easier’ due to
Its form factor.

But I have been running MagicMirror on droid, jetson nano,
Chromebox, desktop, windows, Mac since 2017

MagicMirror base is completely hardware neutral and mostly os neutral. As it runs on Linux , Windows and MacOS.

Specific modules might have hardware dependencies, like attaching sensors or cameras. But MagicMirror doesn’t itself

UncleRoger

@monark said in small outburst - opencv:

Some people may find it fun to find solutions, but for many it is not, especially if years go by without finding solutions either on their own or with the help of the developer who claims to have installed it on other platforms. I would add that the people who find this type of activity fun are precisely those who created the module and know exactly how to untangle it.

I understand your pain. I’ve been working on my MM for a couple of years now and only just recently got it where I feel I’m satisfied for now. But it’s not perfect.

There is a module which will show the arrival times of the next bus/streetcar that I never could get to work reliably, even with the module author’s help. The MMM-Bluelinky module (to display the status of Hyundai/Kia EVs) works occasionally on my test system but almost never on the actual instance. I could go on about things I’ve tried that don’t work. It can be incredibly frustrating.

I am one of those people who enjoys figuring things out but my time is severely limited (full-time job, mentoring a robotics team, serving on the board of a non-profit, going back to college) so I wouldn’t mind a bit more of a finished product.

Here’s the thing, though: I could get a totally finished, polished, ready-to-go with no futzing about product. I would just have to pay for it. (There is a product called DAKboard, I think that might be worth looking into.)

The MagicMirror core system and all of the modules are created and maintained by volunteers who get nothing out of it. I don’t think there’s even any corporate sponsors or anything. So what you get is what people want to put into it.

Most of the people who work on MM and its modules are techies who want to figure out how to get something working either for the fun of it or because they want some functionality. Once they get to that point – working for them – many aren’t interested in the “boring” bits of polishing it up and documenting and so on. And there’s no paycheck to incentivize them to do that.

Take Linux, for example. Linux started out as a personal project and then others started contributing but for a long time it was difficult to use and install and you really had to be pretty tech-savvy to use it. Then companies started getting interested in using it and were willing to pay for a finished product. So other companies – Red Hat, Suse, etc. – were born to do the boring bits of writing manuals and help screens and testing and bug fixes and so on to make it into a product that you can pretty much install off the shelf and use without knowing much. But for a long time, there was a huge difference between Linux and Windows/MacOS because the latter had big companies that invested in them because they weren’t free. Linux was (and is) free, so you got what you paid for.

MagicMirror is the same. You get what you pay for. Actually, that’s not true – you get a lot more because of all the module developers and folks like the amazing @sdetweil who really do put in a lot of time and effort to make MM as off-the-shelf usable as possible. But it’s not going to be as polished as a commercial product.

Now, here’s a thought: Perhaps you could find someone with the time and expertise who would be willing to get your mirror set up for you the way you want it if you pay them. It’s not unheard of – there are folks who will build Ikea furniture for you and folks who will run your garage sale for you. This isn’t any different.

So it comes down to either doing all the work yourself or paying someone else to do it for you (either a freelance MM person or DAKboard/etc.).

If you choose to do it yourself, there are a lot of folks here who can and will answer questions.

monark

@UncleRoger said in small outburst - opencv:

’ve been working on my MM for a couple of years now and only just recently got it where I feel I’m satisfied for now

Well, you may be just starting out, but I’ve been in the mirror group since 2017. When you’ve been here for at least five years and you can’t make modules that are vital to you, you’ll see that you’ll think like me. But first, you’ll have to spend at least $700 on hardware (as if you bought a 16 GB Raspberry Pi 5 with NVMe slot and camera, then upgraded to a Raspberry Pi 6 with all those new things, then to a Raspberry Pi 7 with all those things, then to a Raspberry Pi 8, and still you wouldn’t have solved anything).

@UncleRoger said in small outburst - opencv:

The MMM-Bluelinky module (to display the status of Hyundai/Kia EVs

This is an external factor and depends on Hyundai. I am talking about dependencies created by Raspberry for a project that should be more focused on Raspberry (mirroring is easier with RPi, in addition to its cost, when there was still RPi 3b and RPi 3b+). Your module, in reference to an external company, has nothing to do with what I am saying.

@UncleRoger said in small outburst - opencv:

The MagicMirror core system and all of the modules are created and maintained by volunteers who get nothing out of it. I don’t think there’s even any corporate sponsors or anything. So what you get is what people want to put into it.

Most of the people who work on MM and its modules are techies who want to figure out how to get something working either for the fun of it or because they want some functionality. Once they get to that point – working for them – many aren’t interested in the “boring” bits of polishing it up and documenting and so on. And there’s no paycheck to incentivize them to do that.

Okay, but the longer it stays closed, the fewer people will get involved… the more someone says “don’t fork” or “I’m not telling you how I did it,” the fewer people will want to learn.
As for the tedious part, i.e., writing a detailed wiki on how they did it, that wouldn’t be a problem.
I’m sure there would be volunteers willing to do this work (myself included), if only I knew how they installed things, so I could write it down for others. When there are problems, you also have to solve them or find solutions, solutions that I am amply providing in my outburst of disappointment. In your writing, there is only: “The devs do it for themselves and we just have to thank them and not complain.” Wrong! I am saying to increase the community and make things easier (to be precise, I am only pointing out this work for difficult and complicated modules that need complicated dependencies, such as OpenCV or modules that use the same dependency called “pikapika” but which is used with different versions).

@UncleRoger said in small outburst - opencv:

Take Linux, for example. MagicMirror is the same

But the fact remains that Linux had to change to become more user-friendly. Now there is a boom in Linux users simply because it has become easier to use, with more users who understand the subject and can help. Look at Linux Mint or others. People who are now fed up with Windows are switching to Linux solely because of its user-friendly and easy-to-understand approach, and are slowly learning other things from the shell (cmd).

@UncleRoger said in small outburst - opencv:

Now, here’s a thought: Perhaps you could find someone with the time and expertise who would be willing to get your mirror set up for you the way you want it if you pay them. It’s not unheard of – there are folks who will build Ikea furniture for you and folks who will run your garage sale for you. This isn’t any different.

This shows that you haven’t read everything properly or that there has been a misunderstanding. If my solutions are not practical or are not acceptable to 99% of people, then I am willing to pay someone to build me the MagicMirror, meaning the software and modules, not the assembly part, but one that works with the relevant updates and remains closed, just for me. I’ve written it down, so if anyone is interested, just let me know. But don’t expect to earn more than $80, because if I have to spend that much, I might as well give up, as other developers and ordinary people have done before me.

OT: il tuo DAKboard è fatto con raspberry , il piu costoso con rpi5 che ho gia.

sdetweil

Ok, end of conversation. You’ve had your say